Mostly Middle Tennessee Business Podcast

Unknown: Like, hold on, hold on.
Let me do this. Would you let me

do this? Let me do this. Where
the hell is my freaking intro.

Here it

is. This is the mostly Middle
Tennessee business podcast.

Thank you. Podcast about Middle
Tennessee business owners and

professionals,

mostly. So you said you got a
new gig. Is that? Is that what

you're telling us,

oh, I've always wanted to do
Foley. Foley is a lot of fun.

It's very much like being a
percussionist, yeah. But it also

involves, you know, extreme
creativity and using sounds to

create things, which is like a
percussion instrument, and you

might do things like walk in
sand or run or break

watermelons. How

do you it's like, how do you get
all those fun sound effects?

That's exactly what I used to do
in radio, was creating different

sound effects from other sound
effects. So if I wanted the

sound effect of an arm breaking,
right? And that's typically

a tree branch breaking,

yeah? Remember the lasers and
Star Wars were hitting the sides

of those, the industrial wires,
the guy wires holding up

telephone poles. Yeah. So I've
got a friend in Hollywood,

George. He's a great drummer,
and he's been doing Foley for

2025, years, and

he gets paid to, you know, we
need you know, you watch like

the classic scene where Hugh
Jackman playing Wolverine, and

it's for the movie Logan, yeah,
and it's his last it's going up

leading up to the end of the
movie, and he's running through

the forest and everything they
had to overdub in a studio, his

reenactment of screaming and all
this other stuff. Yeah, not

crazy.

Gotta be perfectly in time. You
have to have great timing, like

a comedian or a drummer. And so,
you know, George is a drummer,

so she makes him I mean,
obviously, the funny thing is,

is that I'd like to do some
Foley, and he wants to jump on a

bus and take the music to the
people. The grass is always

greener, isn't it? Isn't it
interesting human nature,

dude, when I first met you, and
way back when Johnny Rabb was

also a part of the that, like
the grouping, I met a lot of

drummers around that time, and
it was kind of really cool,

because you let it off when we
met in 22,008 2008 and then I

reached, I don't know, I think I
we did your vid SIG, and that

led to the front men doing
theirs, because I saw what I did

with you, and Reggie did his. So
I think Johnny Rabb saw it. And

those, for those of you are
listening, you are listening to

the mostly Middle Tennessee
business podcast where we talk

to middle tennis Tennessee
business owners, entrepreneurs

and people who can't get a word
out of their mouth regularly,

regularly, and Rich and I have
been friends going on 18 years,

I would say at this point, yeah,

cuz we were basing it on your
son having his 17th birthday.

Yeah, yeah, correct. He doesn't
do anything fun, like a pin the

tail on the donkey

kind of a thing. No, you 17, you
know typically don't do those

things anymore. At 17,

you are typically not wanting to
hang out with adults.

He's, he's good, he's, he's
coming around. He's still kind

of like he's 17. You know how it
goes. He's, we're going to do

something fun with him. I think
tomorrow night, nice, yeah,

because he wants to, you know,
have no obligation of school the

next day. Don Arturo's, I don't
know, whatever he wants to do.

We kind of had dinner. He, you
know, he wanted Cracker Barrel,

because that's

where he works. Here in spring,
Hill in, yeah, yep, the

crossings, wow. Okay, so we are
doing a podcast tomorrow from

like, probably, like five to 615
or so, yeah, so I'll come crash

it. Come say hi to the birthday
boy. Let me know where you guys

end up. I'll let you, especially
if you end up at like,

Frankie's, or

if we even go out, yeah, we
don't like really, mean, we've

gone out this past weekend with
the most we've ever gone out in

a long time.

You guys beefed up your
backyard. You You know,

you got the pergola. It's nice.
Fire Pit, the grill, the fire

pits, major selling point.

But getting back to, you know,
back when I met you, you kind of

led that effort into me getting
to know like drum heroes, right?

Yeah, not that you know, Johnny
Rabb wasn't exactly a huge

influential drum hero to me, but
an amazing drummer, nonetheless,

fantastic any innovator,
inventor, entrepreneur, author,

author, he Geez, you know,
amazing teacher. And for those,

again, those of you listening,
look up Johnny Rabb. Look him up

on YouTube. You'll be blown away
with his technique and just the

stuff he can do on a drum. But
he, he said the same thing. He

wanted to do more of what you
were doing, and you wanted to do

more what he was doing in terms
of

clinics. And we ended up doing
that because then following his

lead, I was like, Wow, this
guy's writing books, and he's a

major clinician, doing that all
the time. So I leaned into that

and built that, and then he
ended up doing less of that, and

then getting an awesome gig for,
I think, maybe a decade now,

with collective soul, which I
cannot even believe, because

that's an amazing song book,
that's an amazing body. Work,

and you know, they're playing

mostly, yeah, that's right,
great. Which is the business of

musicianship, and specifically
drummers these days, you gotta,

you gotta be kind of an octopus.
You got to think outside the

box. Because it's funny, since
you've come to Nashville in 1997

you're good, Jim, you

did all things you you knew how
you didn't really have we

didn't. The Internet wasn't as
pervasive back then, certainly

not social media. Look at him.
He's doing Foley again. What

sound is that

could be a shaker and, like, a
nine inch nail song, if you

like, like, Lo Fi it,

you're kind of doing the, yeah,
if you take it out, that's,

that's a a filter of sorts,
yeah, dropping out the low end

and kicking up the high. You
know that you're basically

opening and closing a top

of a fun facing you, because on
my show, I'm usually in this

chair, yeah? And I got more of a
side angle. I

like to have you facing the
guest. Yeah, I know this is

great. I'm just the guy chiming
in from time to time. I'm the

idiot.

You're the robin Howard.

Yeah, that's what I am. You're
but back when you started in

1997 things were a lot, a lot
different. You know, you had to

actually have demos on CD. I'm
pretty sure, did you have

cassettes or CDs? Back then

I moved to town with 400
cassette demos, rich Redmond

drums and percussion,

and it's like, right there you
were, like, behind the

technological curve, my
goodness, because, I mean, were

there people like cassette
players are being phased out by,

well, quickly, I quickly, yeah,
got a bunch of CDs, CDs, and

then you

get a DVD reel happening, right?
And then before long, you and I

are on MySpace. We're meeting
via my space, and then Facebook

opened to the public in 2007 I
remember sitting in salmon zo's

The day it opened to the public,
and I said, I better get on this

thing. Somebody just told me,
get on this.

You get on MySpace. You're going
to meet Jim McCarthy. Your

life's going to change forever.
Well, you have been a great

maybe for the better, maybe for
the worst. That's yet to be

seen. I

probably no. I probably stole a
lot of either, you know, because

you have a, you know, you're a
voiceover artist, but you know,

you have guys like Mark Hamill
that have like 100 variations

on, like, some cartoon voices,
and that's his angle, and your

angle is more, you know, sound
and radio, softer, hard sales,

Monster Truck radio. So, you
know, I stole a lot of things

from you, like the, you
know.com, you know what I mean,

the.com Yeah, the fall offs and
the Gary love Vox. Yeah, we did

that back. That's right, we did
my last paid voiceover job was

doing a Live Nation tour
commercial for Gary levox.com

I don't know my last

one was, pull it

up. You have it on cassette? No,
I haven't.

It's it's really compelling,
great stuff. So much fun. And

you, can you believe? Thank you
for calling APCO. We are

currently closed. Please leave a
message.

Is that a hamburger gig, or a
steak gig? APCO, I believe is,

oh, it's certainly a hamburger,
yeah, but it's steady.

You know, it sounds good. Is
getting some nice grass fed

beef. And we

should probably reference what
that means. So grass fed is

hamburger versus steak.

Oh God, gotcha, yeah, gotcha in
this industry, is that because

you

actually you could, you could
probably talk about that,

because in the beginning,
getting to what you were you

wanted to do, and getting to
your current gig, yeah, you had

to take steak gigs, which were
nice when they came along, and

then the hamburger gigs were
would add up and pay the bills.

Yeah, right, yeah.

As creatives, you know, we
monetize our creativity. And you

know, sometimes you're playing
at, you know, Douglas corner

for, you know, $50 and then
sometimes you're on the tour bus

with a major label artist and
their first single is out, and

you're making $500 but you say,
we said yes to everything,

yeah, because you kind of had to
back then, because it was a lot

more a lot more difficult to get
your name out there and spread

your seed, a lot easier now,
with the advent of social media,

easier, dare I say you still
have to figure out what the

algorithm feels like doing at
that particular moment. What

hashtags are you using? Is it
being collaborated? Is you? Are

you getting people sharing it?
What's, you know, what's ticking

the box of the American culture
to help them get your stuff out?

You know, that seems to be the
biggest question these days,

back then, it was just all
about, get your name out there.

Yeah, you know, however you can
get it out there. So that meant

going down to Broadway. That
meant, you know, rubbing out,

rubbing elbows with everybody,

crashing parties, going to
drummer's hangs, going to

writers nights, telling writers
that you like their material,

giving them a card and saying,
Hey, next time you. Do this,

I'll bring my cajon or my jimbe,
and then, you know, this is

Nashville, songwriting capital
the world. Songwriters lead the

culture here, because without a
three chords in the truth and a

story being told, and then
there's no need for a drummer, a

producer, session musicians, a
live band, chefs, social media,

managers, day to day to day,
managers, labels, none of that

stuff. You gotta have a song
first. But no, you know, social

media you can use to open, to
crack a door, but then you gotta

walk through that door and try
to physically connect with those

people in real life. And that's
what I tried to make, make a

habit of, like, use social media
to create awareness. Yeah, and

then actually, in the real
world,

hit him up on the DMS, yeah,
which is a lot of what I do to

get to podcast guests of that
nature, starting that

relationship in a very authentic
way, very genuine approach. You

know, not like how we get hit up
on LinkedIn these days. What's

your LinkedIn game like when you
people are inboxing you? Well, I

wanted to ask you about LinkedIn
because I swear I have been on

LinkedIn for probably 15 or 16
years, and very, very, very

rarely. I actually don't even
know if I've ever gotten a job

from LinkedIn, but it just seems
like it creates awareness, and

then my the expectation is to
have one, especially since I'm a

speaker and an author on that
side of things, you're expected

to have a LinkedIn page, right?
I do better business on the

other social platforms,

but my inbox in LinkedIn

is, Hi, would you like to be in
the top 50 people under 60?

Yeah. Thanks for accepting my
request. Let me hit you with

three pages of my pitch that I'm
sure you're going to read, yeah,

because I'm so intriguing,
though.

And the fake profiles, you know,
from Malaysia, and you're like,

I don't know this

person, right? Broken English,
do you get the ones that like,

they'll, they'll send you a
message, and then a day or two

later, Hey, did you get my
message? Why aren't you

responding? You know that
they're like, that aggressive?

Well, you

know what's, what's really
interesting is like, you know,

whenever I am like, I use you as
a gage for authenticity, and

like to check, to check the gage
on potential projects. So I get

hit up all the time for these
interesting podcast shows, and

they're like, it's a, it's a
Facebook Live podcast that pays

$3,000 who's got a budget of
$3,000 to pay multiple guests?

Surely, they're trying to scam
you and get your bank

information right.

You know, that's good. That's
why I said, you know, my advice

was, well, if they have you on
and you have to give any sort of

credit card or anything, or hey,
you know, we're going to overpay

you and then refund the money.
What you know, you just refund

it to us. Yeah, that's

giving you. My thing is, I'm
just not going to respond,

because it just doesn't seem
legit. And if I don't know the

guest, and I don't know the
host, and they don't have much

of a following, I can't find
much information on them,

they're just going to ask me
whatever they want to ask me.

And I want to have a better read
on who's asking me questions,

because in my line of work, I
could be expected to answer on

behalf of a whole host of people
that I would not be comfortable

ever talking about, right? You
know,

right? It makes sense, yeah. But
I mean getting going back to our

original conversation, getting
here, 9798 99 oh, yeah, to now.

You know, with somebody new
coming to town, Broadway has

become a highly coveted gig.
Yeah, so here in Nashville, for

those of you who are listening
outside the area, they call it

lower broad basically, it's
turned into a giant tourist

destination, bachelorettes on
pedal taverns. Why am I talking

like,

hey, China, China.

Other things, you know, hot tub,
busses, a bunch of women on

there, and wedding dresses and
stuff, wooing away a lot of

people. I think that Friday and
Saturday nights they shut down

lower, broad, so it's pedestrian

only, kind of like Sixth Street
in Austin did that for years and

years and years.

Yeah, it's a good idea because,
I mean, it's attracting more

tourists, and it's better for
the city Beale Street, but, I

mean, those guys, when you came
here, Broadway was like stone,

but you had to cut your teeth at
least be abandoned the window

places to go play. You know how
much for the drummer in the

window? You know, I played in
Legends with this girl named

Christy cook. And she, of
course, wore the super, super,

super, super short Daisy Dukes
way up high. So, you know, her

cheeks were hanging out. And
everybody would pass by, and

they would like, they would come
in. It's like, what do you want

to hear? You're cheating heart.
Tammy Wynette, so it was good.

That was good training. And you
know, my buddy, Jim Riley, you

know, 20 years as the band
leader for the rascal flats. You

know, we went, we kind of went
to college, into the same

college, and kind of kicked
around Dallas together, ended up

in Nashville, and that was just
the thing to do. You went you

went down there, you played the
song book, you advertised your

wares, which was, you know,
trying to play nice musical

drums, and hopefully you had a
firm handshake, just trying to

shake trees and see what
happened.

But prior to this, you were in
Texas. Dallas in Dallas, right?

Amazing music scene. To this
day, some of the best cover

bands in the world are in
Dallas, Texas, because there's

just this incredible host of
musicians that go to, you know,

the University of North Texas,
this small, little sleepy town

Denton, Texas that just cranks
out world class musicians, you

know, and those musicians to
earn extra money will go work in

the Dallas clubs in the
evenings, or after graduating,

they'll kick around Dallas for a
year or two, save some money

before they move to New York, LA
or Nashville. And that's kind of

what I did, and and I knew that
I had to get out of town because

I got wind that my professor, Ed
Soph was like Redmond's still in

town, because I was down in
Dallas playing in the club's

killer top 40 band called random
access. He's like, Redmond,

still, he's got to get out of
here. He's not getting any

younger, you know,

like 23 at the time, 26 yeah,
getting any younger for

Coronavirus, yeah. But 26
becomes 30, really fast. Oh,

yeah, as we all know. But you
know, you you come to town from

that situation, because I played
in cover bands in Connecticut,

yeah, and I think we talked
about, I mean, what did you get

for a gig in Dallas, on average?

Back then, in 1995

the nightclubs paid 75 or 80
bucks, a man, a man. And then

that's for how long, for
corporate parties would pay

about 150 $175 and you have a
chance at, you know, getting a

slice of, you know, the bachelor
cake, the Groom's Cake, right?

And then some shrimp, maybe some
greasy tortellini. But you're

talking about five, six hours of
working, oh, yeah, because the

nightclubs, you'd have to load
in in the afternoon, so that

kind of ate up your whole day.
You'd have to go before the

dinner crowd, set up your kit,
and then the then the Nike. The

gig would be from like, 10 to
two. Oh, wow, late night. And

then after, after you break down
your drums and kibbutz and high

five and make your money, and
then drive home, you know, it

took everything in your power
not to stop at the Whataburger,

yeah, you know. And then you're
in bed by four in the morning.

And then I might have a music
theory class at eight in the

morning. That's a 12 hour day.
It's a long day to make, so if

you start crunching 80 bucks. So
what was I making? $8 an hour,

$7 an hour, yeah, but it wasn't
about the money. It was about

the 1000s. It was about the
experience that was leading to

the 10s of 1000s of hours of
experience. Connecticut.

Dude, we got paid. I think I
think I made 175

to 225 on average in a cover
band. Yeah, just outside of New

York.

Maybe it was saturated in
Dallas. So the musicians were

plus, I will say that that's
true. A lot of the nightclubs

there had live music seven
nights a week, yeah, from 10 to

two, right? You know. So you
bait a lot of competition, and

then big, you know, charismatic
churches, you know, I played in

Robert tilton's House bands. You
know, the guy that spoke in

tongues on TV. I was in his
band. There was jazz brunches,

there'd be Wednesday night
church services. There'd be some

killer big bands in Dallas, the
Dallas jazz orchestra, the

collection Jazz Orchestra, cool
rooms like strictly taboo, where

you would play cool smooth jazz,
you know, like Kenny G and Jeff

Lorber fusion. And it was a
really cool scene. There was,

like a soul funk scene. There
was this original music thing

happening down in Deep Ellum.
There's a section of town called

Deep Ellum where, like Edie
Bucha and the new Bohemians were

kind of formed. So Dallas is
always going to have a great

music scene because of the the
the schools that are in the

area, just like Nashville.
Nashville, we got TCU, we got

MTSU, we got Vandy, we got
Belmont. We got, it's a whole

three school of rocks. We got
two Bucha rocks. We got, it's

just a music

intensive city, yeah. So you got
a lot of competition here,

totally. But the funny thing is,
you know, you met my brother

this past weekend. We hung out
for a bit. He's like, I just

don't like the whole notion of,
you know, if I were to move

here, and he's an experienced,
seasoned musician, piano player,

getting on Broadway and begging
for money. And I'm like, But

dude, you know, you're in a
different a lot of these are

people trying to get broken into
the business and find a cool day

job. He's a lawyer. He's a
lawyer, and he can, he could pay

his bills. And I'm like, you
could do this, like, literally,

as a leisurely hobby. He's like,
TMZ Harvey, right? I'm a lawyer,

right? Yeah. And maybe I should,
even, you know, be a lawyer for

the industry itself. Yeah, give
him a fresh pair of eyes. But

it sounds like he's got another
chapter and city planned.

Yeah, he's kind of looking
towards different, you know,

Southern cities. I told him that
he's going to be a halfback. He

goes, What's a half pack? I
said, all the people from, like,

northern states, I think Florida
is great. And then they realize

they get down there, they're
there for six months, and this

is a place better visited than
lived. And then they make their

way halfway back to North
Carolina. Or interesting,

yeah, because my parents have
been in Florida for a very long

time. They went down there to
take care of my aging

grandparents and but that makes
sense for them. Just stayed,

yeah. I mean, you get the
vitamin D. It's wonderful. You

can't go outside in the month of
July. Lie in Florida, and, you

know, you've got mosquitoes and
gators. You know, gators is kind

of fun, you know, because it's
like, wow, it's just like,

dinosaurs are still roaming
among us. But they also have

these things called the no see
UMS. There's these little

annoying bugs that make sitting
outside and enjoying the

outdoors, like, nearly
impossible. Really, you got to,

just, like, cover yourself with,
you know, off, to just exist in

Florida.

So, yeah, he's looking towards
Florida, which I told him, I

said, you're going to be a half
back. Yeah, you're gonna, you're

gonna be over it in three to six
months. Or you could just bypass

all that and move here with your
little brother and, you know,

we're the only family we have
left of each other. Let's, let's

hang out, man, let's make it.
Let's work together and buy a

place in Florida that we can go
to and share. We could visit on

a regular

Well, Jim, you're very
persuasive. And maybe he'll,

hopefully he'd the call, but he
was all,

he was kind of like, up, and
he's like, I just don't want to

pass a bucket around on
Broadway.

And he doesn't have to do that.
Hey, believe me, if I ever

played blower Broadway again, I
would hopefully curate the

playlist, curate the musicians,
and we would get an attractive

woman to go, like, with the
bucket, right? I would never do

that. It's almost, it's almost
like patreon.com you and I can

have patreon.com on our podcast,
but it seems like we're just

patronizing. We're just why they
call it

Patreon, yes, but you know,
it's, in a way, it's not really

patronizing. You're saying, Hey,
we're not funding anything.

We're not being funded by
anybody. We're not you don't

hear any commercials on this
thing? Yeah? Help us support

it. Well, the most common pitch
on that angle is a this thing

requires massive amounts of work
and our time, so please help us

out. Right? Yeah, that's a

good pitch. Yeah, getting back
the whole Broadway thing, yeah,

when you came here, it was a
ghost town, kind of like a pain

in the butt, I guess to, you
know, well, I guess I'll do it.

You know, it sounds really, you
had to really. You were working

for peanuts at that point,

but no how we were excited to do
it. Jim and the parking was

free. I would park way up at the
church on the top of Broadway,

right, right, right by the
Bridgestone. And I had a little

rock and roller cart with my
cymbals and my pedal and my

snare drum and my sticks and
then my tools and parts, just

because, you know, the wing nuts
and everything would be walking

away all the time. You go on, go
down there. You get down there

early, you set up. You just
ready for anything. You're just

in your I mean, what? This was
an amazing time.

Do you remember like really
being in the moment then and

saying, I need to enjoy this?
Were you cognizant of that?

Absolutely not really, because
you were always looking forward

to the next thing, and

that's, that's our that's our
disease. In the human condition,

you have to really be self aware
and have just some, just some

spiritual training to like, you
know, know that, hey, life goes

by fast, and there's only one
now. So I should just enjoy

this. No matter what is
happening. I'm enjoying the heck

out of this sparkling ice. I'm
sure it's filled with aspartame,

but like, I'm just enjoying
this. I'm enjoying this time

together. And, you know, we're,
we're here now, now we look at

it that way, but back then, no,
you're like, Dude, I gotta make

something myself. Oh my god, I'm
out the

rush. It's like, oh my god, I
gotta get it done. I gotta get

done. I remember that being like
that in radio. Yeah, I spent

three years at i 95 I need, I
gotta find, I gotta move on.

It's time. I gotta move. I gotta
show that I'm, you know, making

moves and moving up the ladder
and get a gig, and

then you want a better gig, and
you want to gig that has more

dates, and gig has more
visibility, and then a gig that

pays better, and go, my God, I
need a gig where they have w2 so

I can buy a house. And then, you
know, and

then you all of a sudden, you,
you've had a couple of different

you were, you backed some pretty
big artists. Yeah, the biggest

one to date had was a seven year
play, which I find out, like we

just, you know, we've had on the
other podcast I produced. We had

Michael Knox, the producer for
Mr. Aldean. That was a great

episode. Did you listen to that
one? Yeah. And I texted Michael

afterwards, and I said, I just
wanted to thank you again. And

then a couple of days later, I
saw him because he had basically

hired al Dean's band to come and
play on this new kids record.

Tim Dunc, Tim Duggar on curb
records, yeah, it's always great

to have that team together, but
that team wouldn't be together

unless, you know, there wasn't a
Michael Knox to, you know,

believe in everybody. The

vision that guy must have had,
and the tenacity, that's what

I'd love to have and talk to him
about on this podcast, if he's

listening, is that, look, I want
to know about the days you woke

up and you wanted to quit. I'm

supposed to connect you guys.
So, yeah, good. I forgot it's on

my to do list. I

mean that that that is
interesting to me, but I keep on

like, tangent city right now.
It's funny because Broadway,

getting back to Broadway in the
beginning, you were excited to

do it, and the excitement kind
of compensated for the lack of

compensation. Because I remember
what that felt like in radio. It

was like Courtney and I were
talking about it the other

night. I said it wasn't a great
paying gig, but man, the

experiences we had, you know,
the people we met and all the

fun things we were able to do
were great for that time in our

life, until we finally had to
get serious and make some real

money. But for you, I guess it
was kind of similar, because now

you. Broadway is extremely like,
you really, you're gonna be

excited if you got a gig on
Broadway. Now, I think, because

it pays so much better, there's
so many more people down

there, it's just exciting down
there, you know, like, I don't

make a habit of going down
there, and usually, unless I

have out of towners, and we'll
go honky Tonkin, and we'll make

a day of it. And I'm definitely
going to go to laylas. I'm

definitely going to go to
Roberts. There's, like, certain,

certain spots where I just like,
wow, this is just, I mean,

Robert's western world is the
greatest Honky Tonk on the

planet.

20 years in this town, I've
never stepped foot in that.

We're going to go, we should go.

We'll get, we'll get our fried
bologna sandwich with the, you

know, the crinkle fries and a
Coors originally serve food

there, I guess they do. Yeah,
really good food. There's like,

a short order guy, really, yeah,
it's like a greasy burger. We'll

have to go. It's dirt cheap,

you know. Yeah, that sounds
appealing. Now, we probably

should have done that this past
Sunday with my brother. Oh,

they would have, because it's
literally, like walking back

into 1955 Yeah, a

lot of the old school country
you're going to hear is

in that tootsies, tootsies,
tootsies is the only room I have

an old school room. I've never
played in Nashville, in the

front room. I've played in the
back room or from the front

room, where you're like, right
in that little, tiny, little

window. Haven't, haven't done
that, really, haven't

even sat in there ever. You've
never played toads place either.

And

I have, I know, buddy, it's
amazing,

right by Yale University. Who
knows Yale's got a school of

music. Maybe I'll do a clinic
there. I think it's very

classical, you know, right? I
don't know if they have a jazz

program,

but you always had a bucket
list. You knew exactly what you

wanted to do, you know, again,
Broadway is a different beast.

Now for those people coming in,
still a good place to kind of

shake hands and kiss babies, rub
elbows with other music industry

types, I would think, but
probably a lot more tourists,

yeah, but don't, also, don't
make a career out of it, yeah,

you know, I mean, don't, don't,
don't,

you know, I'd be fine. You know,
if we did a, if I did a gig at,

you know, I kind of whatever I
felt like doing it, maybe a

Sunday afternoon, and I knew the
songs I would do it. It's like,

it's not important for me as a
drummer right now to be doing

what you do, you know, yeah,
it's just, I tell people, I

said, I'm glad I met you,
because it's not really, I'm not

sure if it was a life I would, I
would be matched for. Oh,

yeah, you were telling me you
didn't necessarily want to wake

up in a different city every
day. And there's something to me

is like, I love there's like a
troubadour in me, you know, I

don't necessarily have a guitar
strapped to my back and I'm

walking down the railroad tracks
to the next gig, you know, but

the idea of, you know, getting
on a bus with my friends and we

play some great music, and then
wake up in another city The next

morning, and, you know, there's
a chef inside. He and I said,

Can I get, you know, three over
medium eggs? And he makes them

for me. I mean, I kind of like
it. What's an over medium egg?

Over medium is where the whites
are done completely, but you can

still crack the

yellow. Oh, okay, yeah, isn't
that kind of like over easy? No,

over easy. There might be some
white slime. That's

not okay. And it's the same guy
every day, and he knows

exactly now it's different. We
have carried caterers with us,

but we have realized that for
some reason, sometimes the

quality control is better having
a different chef in every city,

because they're just trying to
impress you for that one.

Oh, wow. Good strategy.
Interesting. Yeah. So they show

up. Tell me about, like, a day
you're out on you're going to be

on tour in a couple of weeks.
Can wait for the big summer

tour. Yep. What's you get out
there? You know, you get, you

have bus call at night. What's
your what do you do? You get on

there. You just kind of hang
out.

And so we meet at the Walmart
Supercenter, yeah. And then, you

know, you get out of your bus,
you load your luggage into the

car. You hang your, you know,
your your your show shirts in

the back curtain. You set up
your little bunk, plug in your

plug in your iPhone. You set up
your little world. You take your

shoes off. You know your space,
yeah, it's our little on the

submarine. You know that your
coffin, your little coffin,

right? And it's, it's a very I
love it. Some guys don't like

it.

What if you have a CPAP? Anybody
have a CPAP on the bus? Not yet?

No. Where do you put the CPAP if
you have that would be so bad.

Seriously, I'd be hanging out in
the hallway, or it'd be pushed

up against the wall of the bus.
It'd be very uncommon. There's

no nightstands next to your bed?
No, yeah. It's as you it's body

size.

Yeah. So, you know, you kibbutz
with everybody, catch up with

everybody. You know, the you
know, and you know, we're My

guys are older now, and they got
kids, and they're used to

getting up at six in the
morning, so they might be right

in the bunk immediately, right?
You know, sleeping. But I might

have to wind down a little bit.
I might have to watch a scary

movie on the satellite. And
hopefully, you know, the the

buffering and everything is
good, because it is a satellite,

and sometimes you'll, like, get
a glitch. And it's the most

incredible part, all right? This
is where the chest bursters

coming out, and then it just
just pixelates, and then it

freezes there, and then five
miles down the road, it comes on

again. Oh,

good, yeah, it's rough. So
you're out in the general area

watching TV on the sofa,
whatever, and just rolling down,

or am I going to my bunk and
getting my iPad, and then I. Of

course, you can download things
from Netflix and, yeah, all

that. So I might do the thing
with the ears and the iPad. I

mean, it's, it's, it's easy
living man, you know. And then,

you know, set my alarm for the
next day. All right, typically,

is what we're gonna wake up and
say, We're gonna wake up in

North Carolina, the bus is
gonna, you look at your mileage,

oh, the bus is gonna pull in
around 730 in the morning. I'm

gonna, let's see, it's one
o'clock now. I'm gonna get up at

9am right? Because, really, I
don't have to do anything until

sound check at three in the
afternoon, right? Johnny's got

my back, setting up the drums
and all that kind of stuff. So

the first thing I'll do as I get
up, I probably go and get some

get some eggs to order, and then
I'm off to the gym somewhere.

But if we're in the middle of
nowhere festival, I carry in the

bay of the bus, a weight bench,
weights, a Bosu bands, jump

ropes, all the stuff to make a
little mobile gym. And I got a

little Bluetooth player, and I
get my Gatorade zero and a bunch

of cold waters, and kind of give
it hell. Get that out of the

way. Shower up, maybe go break
bread, lunch with somebody. Of

course, I've got this wonderful
street team of people around the

nation who I've met for all
these 20 plus years of touring.

So they remember, like, hey,
Redmond, I see you're gonna be

in town tomorrow. I'm gonna All
right, so I'll pull on at 730

come pick me up at, you know,
10am they pick me up and they

take me to the nice coffee shop.
We go get some coffee shop food.

A big fan of coffee shop food,
and catch up with that person.

They drop me off at the venue,
we do the sound check. Then, you

know, break bread with the band.
We have the thing called the 501

club. So at 501 we all go in, we
try to break bread together as

our little road family, and it's
just time together. And then

it's time to shower and such.
And then we have an acoustic

show. You're showering twice a
day, sometimes three times a

day, really, yeah. And then we
go ask that question. We do an

acoustic show, yeah, for these,
for the VIP high rollers, they

pay a little extra money, and
they'll get to see Jason answer

four or five questions, and us
play three songs, and I have

this little cajon rig that I can
play with my hands and a pedal

and sticks and brushes and
stuff. And it's kind of really

fun. And then that brings us to
about 7:45pm I get the sticks in

my hands, and it's more
kibitzing, and potentially walk

watching the opening acts at the
beginning of the tour. I always

like to take pictures and video
of the opening act. Drummers.

Just let them know. Hey, man, we
got solidarity. I got your back.

I'll get some videos of you that
you can use on the socials.

Maybe you'll do the same for me.
Yeah, go out there, do our show.

After the show, you get off
stage at 11pm you're drenched in

sweat. Definitely time for
another shower. It'd be cool

down with the guys a bit. You
know, we're cutting it's a lot

of very social life, yeah,
highly social, you know.

And do the same thing again in a
different city, they do the same

thing again. But

maybe I have a clinic. Maybe
it's a Saturday, right, and

they're picking me up at 9am and
then it's 45 minutes away the

drum shop or the high school or
wherever is 45 minutes away. And

then hopefully, you know, I send
them a nice little writer that

says, I like these drums. I let
them set set up this way. I like

them to sound this way. I just
want to pull in with my laptop

and my ears plug in, maybe tweak
the drums a little bit, and then

I could do and I could do some
teaching. I could do some

lessons, I could do a
masterclass. I could do a

clinic, and I might do a midday
corporate speech, you know, for

like, a chamber of commerce or
something like that. And then

they'll get me back, hopefully
in time for the sound check,

right? And I always try to be
there an hour before downbeat,

right? And then it's, you know,
more of the same. So it's all a

variation on what I'm eating,
who I'm visiting, am I teaching?

Let me get the workout in and
then execute that show. You

know, no matter what is going
on, you got to play those 24

shows, 24 songs, I guess, the
last time you're ever going to

play. Yeah, it might be. Here's

your life today. Yeah, this is a
highly coveted life that a lot

of musicians would love to have,
and probably kill to have. That

you're coming to Nashville. Are
they putting it? Putting

yourself it can be done.
Obviously, you getting back to,

you know, let's say 2000 2001
you're still here. You're

grinding it out, you're figuring
out the system and stuff like

that. You've already met Jason
99 I believe 99 Yeah, you know

all of you, he was probably just
like, I'm gonna dare say that a

lot of the artists, as a
musician, if you're an artist,

you got to look at it. My
lottery ticket is me, right, and

it's either going to win or it's
going to fail. And I could

probably get into other areas of
the music business, but I'm

going to try my shot. I'm taking
my shot at being a big artist.

I'm going to play the big
gamble. So to speak with a

musician, you get to play a
bunch of different lottery

tickets, you know, side person,
that kind of thing. Artists are

like, you know, we got it. You
got to spread your seed, get the

experience the time in the
trenches. And hey, one of them

might hit, you know, Oh, yeah.
That's kind of like the the

odds, in a way. But it's funny,
because going back to what we're

talking about with Mr. Michael
Knox and Jason, seven years i.

That's blows my mind, that they
stuck with it. That is a long

time, deep commitment. Would to
have a proof of proof of concept

in a business idea, and have the
faith to see it through amazing

it's, it's, thank God. It's mind
numbing to think about that, you

know, because you were a part of
that journey, but you were also

doing other things because

you had to pay the bills, right?
Yeah,

he was a part of your story, but
a minute part, you know, because

you had so many at one point you
were playing with, how many

bands

we had? 2029, bands in one year,
in one year without any zero

conflict, that's crazy. So
that's God saying. I want you to

get even more experience. I want
you to cut your teeth more.

Yeah, you're not. What was it
like, baby? Going to give you

the big prize yet,

right? Six years of doing that,
though, you had to be like when

you know I know something's
bound to happen. You just had to

know intrinsically in your gut
that I'm destined to be a big

name in this town, out of this
town, in this country, in the

drumming community, which you
have become. But what were the

days like, where you like, is
this really that had to cross

your mind? Is this really going
to happen? Did you have your

doubts? Did you have those days
where you're like, I just, I'm

freaking exhausted. You know,
it's just, it's a grind.

Even there were days that I
called Haagen Dazs, days where

you kind of range on a pie to
Haagen Dazs, because you're just

like, well, man. But luckily,
there was, you know, a bunch of

true believers, you know, the
Michael Knox's and, you know,

you know, I had Kurt and Tully
in my life to kind of lean on,

because we were kind of like a
unit, you know, we had a we, you

know, we were playing with
Jason, we were playing with Tim

rush low. We were highly
coveted, sought after showcase

band. We were started to do demo
sessions together for all sorts

of publishing companies. We had
a rock band called feeling

Fiona, and we played 12th and
Porter and third and Lindsley.

And so there's a strength in
numbers thing that's nice where

you can kind of lean on other
people, and that's right, yeah,

I tell people that could be a
model, that could be a business

model for you. Yes, it's kind of
the music businesses, like every

man for himself, you against the
world kind of thing. But it sure

is nice to find like minded
people that you know, and found

a tribe. Yeah, yeah. It's nice.
So it helps you weather that

storm, tons of storms. Yeah, it
sucks doing it by yourself, and

it's nice Michael. Michael Knox
would be like, Hey, here's a

gift card, or, Hey, I got lunch
covered for you guys today. And,

you know,

and is like, you know, he's a
rarity in the business too,

because he's waiting on his
return. Yeah, you know, he had

some pretty big jobs, and it
paid the bills, I'm sure, but

not to the point where he was
taking that money and

reinvesting it into a lottery
ticket, essentially, you know, I

mean, it's, he's continuously
pumping it into that. And I just

know something. I mean, I think
the number was 40 showcases you

guys did, yeah, so many. My
gosh, that

would never happen today. That
would never happen today, and it

would be really rare to find a
group of people that would stay

together for seven years. That's
what I'm saying. It would be,

when was the

last time? What was, if it
didn't happen in seven would you

was still stuck around for
eight, nine or 10? I'm sure.

I mean, look at the guys like,
you know, there's other stories,

like the ELI young band. Let's
just tell it. Say the ELI young

band, you know, they ended up
having a nice couple of kids and

hits, and they have a good
career, but they were kicking

around all over Texas for about
a decade trying to make it

happen. Gosh, you got to do it
for the joy at that point. Got

to love playing your instrument.
Yeah, you know what I mean. No

matter what happens, I love the
physical act of playing my

instrument, and then how it
makes me feel, and then how it

makes others feel and impacts
their life. I mean, it's just

playing the drums. It's just a
win, win. I mean, my whole goal

in life is to just, you know,
keep taking care of myself,

because it's such a physical
instrument, so I could keep

doing that thing. And I think of
the people that are continue to

doing it at the highest levels.
I mean, Louis Belson played to

the practically the day he died,
you know, Roy Haynes was in his

80s, an amazing jazz drummer.
They just, guys are just, I'm a

lifer. I'm gonna play my
instrument till I drop. I have,

you know, during my speech, I
have a, I have a, you know, a

moment where I go, I'm probably
going to go out like this, whoa,

you know, counting off a song.
And that'll be a glorious

moment, because I will be in my
purpose, sitting behind this

thing that is a physical
manifestation of my purpose in

life. You know, that's nuts,
man, because it's

you really have to enjoy the
journey. I love it. You have to

love my craft, man, yeah, I'm
like, when you start thinking of

like painters, you know these
guys that you know, they have to

rent some place that's big
enough for their, their the

materials that they need. They
can throw paint at a wall and

they just, they're just in. I
didn't, I don't know how they're

paying their bills, and that at
some point, some taste maker

comes along and says, I approve
of this, and I will bring this

to all of my rich friends. And
the next thing you know,

someone's paying $2 million for
this piece. And is that artist

going to probably upgrade his
art studio and his quality of

life, probably, but really it's
the focus his reason is, or

their Why is, its purpose is the
painting? Yeah, you know,

I actually typically try to look
up questions.

Oh, I was going to tell my while
I got you here. This was kind of

an interesting moment. I keep
telling people that I'm having a

midlife crisis. I think I've
been having it for 15 years. But

anyways, I've been going around
Nashville and going to old

houses and condos that I have
owned or I lived in. So today, I

was out in Donaldson, Tennessee
by the airport, and I have a

good friend of mine, George
Bruner. And George Bruner, he's

a craftsman. He's a leather
worker, and he combines leather

and metal, and he makes these
really nice handmade jewelry.

And you know, a bunch of rock
and rollers wear them. You know,

Kenny are enough. Where's his
stuff? And so anyways, I was, he

was making a new belt for me
that I'm wearing right now, and

I was looking through this tub
of cuffs. And I go, I put this

one on, and it fits, and he
goes, he goes, Oh, man, do you

realize that I made this for
you, but it's for some reason.

Last time you saw me, you passed
on it. But he goes, that metal

on there is actually a piece of
John Wysocki symbol from the

band stain. So John Wysocki was
a member of our community and

was a good friend of all of
ours, and he died about a year

ago, and this was a part of his
symbol. And so for some one

reason today, I tried this thing
on. He goes, he goes, take it,

man, I made it for you. You
didn't take it last time. Let's

hold it up for the camera. Yeah.
So, so this is a piece of John

Wysocki, God rest his soul,
drummers symbol. And so I'm

wearing this today. Now I can
look down and think about our

friend John. That's great. It's
a really interesting so, I

mean, really like, you know, all
the instruments us being

drummers, we are imprinting our
personality on those

instruments. Yeah, you know,

Bruner model works. So I went to
go see George today. I'll go see

him, you know, once you're once
a year before tour, and to say,

Hey, you got any new leather?
Yeah, you know, you know. I

mean, I'm a fan of of a dead cow

all the guy, you know, they say
that nice guys finish last, you

know, I think about a Michael
Knox, and he just had the faith

and the long obedience in the
same direction when it came to

just believing in his artist,
you know, and he believed in you

guys. I, despite all the biggies
telling me that, Nah, I just

don't see anything. I believe
in. This thing's gonna pay off

someday, absolutely, and I'm
willing to put the time in.

Yeah, you on the other hand, you
know you being, you know, you're

a great guy, a nice guy.
Everybody loves you, who comes

across, even everybody that
we've had recently on your your

podcast. It's amazing to me,
unprompted, we're not prompting

them at all. Guys, you go and
listen to the rich Redmond show.

Go check it out. Rich
redmond.com forward slash

podcast. It probably in the last
I want to say 567, episodes,

we've had some of the newer
people to town that have made a

name for themselves, who have
literally listened to you and

absorbed your wisdom and the
things that you've had to say

over the last 20 years, and now
they're, they're, you're like,

they're you're not pro you,
they're doing it and that you

were no These. Nobody's being
prompted. Everybody feels

compelled to like Thank you.
We're doing what you did and

showing us how to do it, and
that's starting to come around.

Now, crazy. It is crazy. It's
not, though, because that's what

you set out to do. You. What was
your your card? What did this

say? What was your mantra when
you got here? Remember when we

talked about

the first card I ever had when I
came to town was

Vistaprint. You know? Because,

if so, not a business card, but
your yourself, your mantra, oh,

my mantra is, my purpose in life
is to affect people in a

positive way and change lives.
And my

was it kind of, did you know you
were going to do that? Or was it

kind of like, this is, yeah,
this is a lofty goal. If I do

great. If not, who knows if I'll
ever know? Well, you can that

that validation is happening
now. Yeah, it's cool, man.

That is cool because it is cool
to see. You know, like I said,

you know, I've never had
children. I'm always uncle

Richie. You know, Uncle Richie
is the cool uncle, and that's

great. But I start looking
online, and I thinking, Oh, my

God, oh, I taught that person. I
taught that person. I taught

that person. They took my class.
They came to drummers weekend.

Oh my god. Hundreds of people
they have read has really added

up. And I could look at their
careers and go, Wow, they just

signed with a major rock band.
That person just finished

Berkeley College of Music. That
person got accepted to the

University of North Texas. That
person's writing. A Buster

playing with a hit. Wow, did
that person bought a house?

Yeah, hold for with their drums.
And so if I can have any, you

know, like I said, I'm not a
genius, I'm just in my purpose.

And if there's a ripple effect
of a person being in their

purpose and enjoying what they
do and it helps others,

fantastic, you know, because I
am a teacher, I've always been a

teacher. You know, I have a
teacher's heart. I was trained

to be a teacher. I have my
masters in music education. So

along the lines, you have to
write a lot of papers, you have

to study a lot of pedagogical
practices. You have to study

educational philosophies. And
you know, how you might, you

know, conduct a high school
choir or a high school symphonic

band or score for a marching
band, all sorts of things they

don't necessarily use all the
time, but I'm sure glad I did

it. You know that no one can
take that away from me. I mean,

I hated studying the clarinet. I
hated making shapes on a

football field with a with a
marching band, but it was a

means, it's just because I
wanted to be, I wanted to be in

a rock band. You know, I was 18
years old, and I really wanted

to be in a rock band. What was
all your that's like being a

comedian, that's about as safe
as being a comedian. So my

parents were like, look at we're
going to go to school for four

years. You're only going to be
2122 years old when you get out

and you'll have something that
no one can take away from you.

And then, while you're there,
jumping through these flaming

hoops of taking science of sound
and studying the bassoon for a

semester, I got to practice
hours and hours every single

day, and all summer, I'm in the
music building at Texas Tech

University, and I have my
professor, Alan Shin, gave me

one of the beautiful Wenger
lockout units that was like had

AC in it, and I had my set of
Remo drums in there, and like

stacks and stacks of method
books and a leases sr 16 going

through a bass amp, and I could
just practice and practice and

transcribe 12 hours a day and
sit in my room and work on my

cup, slap on the conga, and then
get in there, and, you know

what, I mean, listen to Fusion
records, and it was so it was a

great time in life, you know,
was

it great? Did you realize how
great it was at that time,

still wanted to be out there
doing it, you know? Because

every time a clinician would
come into town, or I played in

the big band at Texas Tech
University. And we'd have these

amazing guys that would come in,
like Steve Wiest, who was in,

you know, Maynard Ferguson's
band with Greg Bissonette. He

would come in, Dennis de Blasio,
the guys from the yellow jackets

would come in. There'd be all
these guest artists, and I would

just be so excited to meet them,
because they would always live

in New York or LA and I'd be
like, you know, and I haven't

really, I hadn't really gotten
out of Connecticut or Texas, and

I was like, What's it like in
sunny Los Angeles, and what's it

like to play on the mean streets
of Manhattan? Are you telling me

you got to move your drums
around in a taxi? Will they stop

for you? Like, what does it pay?
Where do you live? Like, it was

just,

oh, to me, it sounds like a
nightmare. Well,

you know, looking back on it,
it's a young man's game. Yeah,

you know, I mean, Sean Pelton,
you know, 25 years as the

drummer, was Saturday Night
Live. He's like, Man, I lived in

this, you know, rat infested
apartment on the fourth floor,

and he'd have to schlep his
drums. There's no elevator.

You'd have to, you know, dodge
homeless people and people

taking dumps in the street to
get his drums up to his fourth

floor, you know, studio
apartment. And you know, how

many higher drum sets, how many
years later? Yeah, he's the

contractor for the Saturday
Night Live Band. He's played on

some of the most iconic records
of all time, and and he owns, I

believe it's like an urban
legend, two sizable apartments

in Manhattan. He knocked the
wall down, and he got a nice pad

with a studio, recording studio
in his apartment. Good for him

in Manhattan. Yeah, that is not
easily done. Well, he put the

time in. He put the time in and
he got a television job. And

television jobs pay rate,
because there's a union and

there's residuals, right? So
every episode that reruns of

Saturday Night Live, he's seeing
a check

so, but does he? He's got to be
a part of the episode, though,

at some point, and typically he
is. He's on camera,

he's on camera, and he's on the
and he's backing up artists, and

then that's good. We need to get
hit by

Sean. Would be great. You know,

when we played SNL in 2017 you
know, it was nice. He took the

time to come backstage and give
me a hug and say, I like what

you're doing. I read your
articles in MD, and was he? Did

he know who you were? Yeah, did
you meet him before then

it's, I'm sure we we knew of
each other. Yeah, you know, we

never personally met. Yeah, we
met personally. Then he's like,

yeah, man, good job. Reach out
to him. Was great. He'd be a

good guy to get out. Yeah, zoom
it up. I'd love to talk we got a

zoom tomorrow with Stan Lynch,
the original drummer from Tom

Petty, 20 years with Tom Petty.
I mean, that's going to be and

I've known. And I've known Stan
since in the year 2000 that's

when I met him, 25 years ago.

Well, it's 20 longer than 20
years he's he's been Tom Petty's

drummer the

entire but I met him in the year
2000 when I was me, Kurt and

Tully were in the in the house
band for the Warner chapel

songwriting camp, and we
basically just sat in the studio

all day, and Stan would write
with Ital Sure, who was this guy

who wrote and digging for
Carlos? Never heard of it. He

wrote that jewel was there.
Robbie Neville was there. You

know the he had that song, c'est
la vie. Say La Vie and Neville

Brothers, no not rob this is
Robbie Neville. He was a pop

artist in the late 80s. I
thought that was,

say, loving

I thought Robbie Neville was
part of the Neville

you're thinking about Ian Ian
Neville. Ian Neville, and

there's a guy that had the mole
on his leg. They

were like they were big guys,
and they always looked like they

were squeezing the crap out of
the microphone. Yeah,

yeah. Well, shame on us for
shame on us for not remembering

the Neville Brothers. Aaron
Neville. Aaron Neville, there

you go. Yes, Robbie. I think
Robbie might have been his

brother. Oh,

yeah, I'm wrong. Different
ethnicity. Okay, I see.

So. Anyways, yeah, tell me what
was like to hear yourself. You

know, I know we've talked about
it before, especially in the

world, world class, award
winning documentary we both put

together, working the dream.
Working the dream on YouTube.

You can go check it out. It's
only about 45 minutes long, and

perfect for an hour long
documentary that needs

commercial breaks. Well,

actually 45 minutes, but
originally it was probably two

and a half hours, but I kept
telling you to take things out,

because I was so gun shy at that
point in my career. About

your so what you were only
people PR sensitive, you

know? And I still am, you know
what? I mean? Yeah, I know you

we're in a world where at any
moment, things could be taken as

sound bites, and they can be
taken out of context and used in

an inappropriate way, which is
very scary,

but I think ultimately, yes,
you're right, but we're also to

the point as a society where we
are our skepticism is at such a

level that we automatically
think it's fake. Okay, so it's

either AI, I know, the other day
I saw, you know, I watched these

boat videos, wavy boats,
especially where you'll see

these people in a in an inlet,
haul over inlet. And I think,

dude, at this point in my life,
if it gives me joy, I go for it.

You guys kind of gravitate
towards it. That's why I've got

all the Marvel stuff up to my
left. And, you know, I got back

in the drumming again, and I'm
enjoying it. With that. I just

enjoy watching boats like idiots
and pontoons going through this

tumultuous inlet, which is like
one of the most world's most

tumultuous inlets ever. You
know, high tide and low tide.

This thing just eats boats and,
oh, let's take it out in the

ocean, the rental pontoon from
the bay. And it's like, these

guys just get their stupid human
tricks. It's awesome. Yeah. So

I'm watching one the other day,
and it says, this wave comes up.

Watch the wave. You know, wait
for it. That's the big thing.

They put in the text, wait, wait
for it, because they want you to

watch the entire video. Helps
the algorithm. And, you know, in

the video, this seemingly like
you know what you'd see at a

beach. What do you gotta

do? Okay, I'm passing up on a
great opportunity for

everybody. We're gonna we're
gonna make sure it's on there,

but you got to put it in
prominence. Give me the book.

We're doing this live hand to
hand it to me. I'll put it in

back of me. Actually, I think
I'm gonna have potential.

See, guys, this is happen as
we're recording, made us leave

it in to the chopper. So in this
video, they got like what

seemingly is like a beach wave,
a very medium sized beach wave

that you'd go body surfing on
the beach. It comes over the

boat and, like, takes the entire
boat, like, oh my gosh, the

whole thing disappeared. It's
AI. It's fake. And I was like,

almost like, Oh, really. Come
on, that would have been a cool

video. Otherwise, you know,

you know, the AI generated
headshots and such. I'm

interested to see,

yeah, but you know, they did
that a couple of years ago. I

did that too, and you pay for
like, a pack of 10 pictures, or

whoever, however, $10 for a
bunch of like 100 pictures. But

they take about seven pictures
of you, and have different AI,

they take your, like, your
attitudes, your facial

structure, general, you know how
you smile if you don't smile.

And then they put personalities
to it. It's odd. I'll have to

show it to you. They like, they
made me look like Bruce Willis

from Armageddon. Remember that?
Yeah, there was like, one point

where I had my shirt off and I
was jacked, you know? And I'm

like, I wish I looked like that.
But it was also. When I was bald

and had the, you know, the
badass beard bald look, until

Courtney wanted my hair to grow
back. I love it. But, yeah,

those things got nice little
head of hair. You working on

there, buddy. Now they got aI
flying apps. You could actually

upload your photo and likeness,
and they'll make videos of you

flying.

I mean, where is it going? I
just don't know. Man, you know

it's,

you know, any we just heard
about an app that apparently

will strip instruments out of
songs. I

don't like it. I know you don't
like that. I know I don't like

it, buddy.

That brings me to the business
of music. I mean, ever since

Napster, your industry has just
been in flux. But you know,

maybe it's fair to say that even
in in while the formats of the

delivery of the music changed,
you had eight track, you had

vinyl, you had cassette, then it
went to CD, then it went to mp

three. But since Napster, the
industry has been shaken up,

right? Yeah,

it would be interesting to have
found I'm grateful for

everything that I have my life,
and work so hard for it, and

it's fantastic. But what if I
had hit with a rock band in the

My 20s, in the 90s, because,
because that was the velvet rope

era. I mean, that was limos and
velvet

ropes, but I think it was
trending down by that point. I

want to say the mid eight the
80s was more like

there was money in the music
business. Then water. Yeah, in

the 90s, the 90s, people battle
the boom and, you know, sound

garden and Pearl Jam and modern
rock radio. And

did singles ever take off like,
you know, remember the singles

when they had offered it was
like buying mp three. Now you

buy, you spend your buck on
iTunes. You just want the song.

Now it's just all streaming.
Were singles a big thing back in

the 90s? Or they still, they
still bought out albums, right?

People still bought albums,
yeah, but you had to have a

single for the radio. You know,
there's the new one from Stone

Temple Pilots, right? You know?
Oh, yeah, of course. Man, that

was a heyday of quality rock
bands.

90s music, to me, was such a
hodgepodge. It was such an

interesting time for new music
to come out, because I was

certainly, I was listening at
that time more to than modern

rock stations, because I was
getting in the radio. I wanted

to get in the radio. I wanted to
work for 92 3k rock in New York

City, and they were the premier
modern rock, active rock, well,

probably modern rocket.

But if you had gotten the lead
DJ job at that station in New

York City, that

would be impossible, because it
was Howard Stern at the time. He

was a morning guy,

okay, but what I'm saying is, if
you were a rock jock on one of

the other shifts, right, did

it pay a lot of money in that
city? Oh, yeah, you made,

probably I would have, if you're
an afternoon guy, 200 probably

250 quarter

of a million dollars in 1990s
money. Yep, and you were

actually had a say in what was
played? No,

I think you probably, you, yeah,
you probably had a say,

depending on their role. If they
were music director. Music

directors typically brought
late, they would be the first

ones to hear what the record
company representatives would be

like, Hey, could you, you know,
add this this week? How many

spins can we get they would have
those conversations. And then,

typically, the music director
would bring it to the program

director and say, Hey, what do
you think? Let's, you know,

let's put it in, you know,
rotation at night, in the

evening, see how it does, how
does the audience respond? So it

was very organic. I would say,
back then, to a certain point, I

think paid a Paola was still a
thing, you know, in terms of

wining and dining, but, you
know, not like it was in the 70s

and 80s with the boss jocks so
interesting.

And when you played that new
single from Stone Temple Pilots,

was it still the physical CD?
Blow on it, put it on Yeah,

because there was a risk of it
being scratched or having dust

on

it, you they would sit in their
own like, ready to go jewel

cases, and you'd put it into the
CD player, which is a

specialized industrial,
commercial CD player, and it

would queue up. You'd dial, you
had a little knob on it, you'd

dial with the track in, and it
would be ready to go. And

typically on the board, you'd
fire it right from the board,

you know? And that, that was in
the mid 90s, was the last

bastion of hardware based,
hardware based disc jockeys that

were one step beyond queuing up
vinyl, because that used to

happen, they would have to sit
there and hold the vinyl, and

the turntable underneath would
be spinning, and they just hold

on and be like until they're
ready. Okay, here's an and they

would back it up so they
wouldn't have really, you know?

Yeah, it was. It's an art form.
There's actually, you go to

California Air, check on
YouTube, and it's fascinating.

Like the guys from the 80s
pulling their music and their

writing game, and they're
hitting the post, those are

videos of it. Oh yeah, it's
amazing to watch. I mean, it was

a true.

Word for awesome skill set. And
then if those guys stayed in the

business, and they were trying
to stay relevant, to keep up

with the latest technology, they
had to totally change to a

software based system.

Well, that's when automation
came in, voice tracking. That's

about the time I got in the
radio. Was when all the things

started, you know, I got into
the at the point where

everything was on a computer. I
literally, in my live shift, I

would hit a button and it's got
to, you make an art out of it.

Oh, I totally, I did the the
thumb slap, or the, you know,

the, you know, my hurt my
finger. But yeah, that kind of a

thing. Nice. No, no. Homer, rock
and roll. I 95 bam,

bam. See percussion again,
right? Exactly. Percussion,

DJing percussion, working in
radio percussion,

exactly, but it was, it was a
kind of a cool experience. One

day I came in for my shift, and
the entire system shit the bed.

Everything was down. What
happened? The whole the hard

drives just crashed, and all the
stuff, all the commercials, all

the music, they had to go back,
to quote, the stone age. They

kept their wall of music readily
available in the studio for that

purpose, maybe, or maybe for
esthetics. But getting all the

commercials, all the spot sets,
literally, the production

director's job that day was to
put all the spot sets on reel to

reel, and they would carry in
the platters and say, Okay,

here's the next hour. Yeah,
here's the next hour, here's the

next hour, here's the next hour.
And because that was important,

they had to make sure that they
played the spots. That's how we

got paid. Interesting. And, you
know, he had to put them all

back to back. Not a fun job, but
getting a taste of running the

board manually was a lot of fun
pulling your music the next hour

of music. That was a lot looking
forward on the logs and seeing

where you are and stuff. I had a
blast, because you had to stay

there for six hours being on the
air,

I'm sure. And you had your P
songs, right? Like steroid of

heaven.

Yep, sorry to heaven. And white
satin. I

love it, yeah. But it just goes
to show, if you're an open

minded person, you notice that
every person that has any job on

this planet, there is an art
form to that job, whether it you

are a janitor or a host at brick
tops, or you are a garbage man,

or you are creating high Art, or
you, like every there is an art

to doing a job, a job, well
done. There's an art form to all

of it. Good point. I mean,
there's actually in the

electrical field, because trades
are starting to make a huge

comeback, dude, I found out
yesterday at ntsu, they have a

concrete program to pour
concrete, to learn about

concrete. Yeah, it's a whole
degreed program. And these guys

that are coming out of this
program, they could make 80 to

$150,000 a year within the first
year or two. It's awesome,

because there's no about the
chemistry of concrete and what

works and what it's I learned
about this yesterday. It's

crazy. As you know, concrete can
be an art form. Well, thank God

for the trades. You know, like
you look at electrical there are

guys on Instagram that are
getting tool deals and

representation and things of
that nature. There's a guy named

Tennessee electrician, and he'll
just put a camera behind him and

rework a panel, you know, pull
all the guts out, redo the wire,

make the wire like, have like,
you know, just they're all

parallel to each other. It's to
watch somebody put properly, put

a panel together and redress it
up. It's about an eight hour

job, yeah, but when you time
compress and you see the

artistry involved when it's done
properly, it's freaking

beautiful when it's done. You
ever go into Costco, like these

big warehouses, and look up,
look at the pipes that are

running, the big the silver
pipes, somebody has to bend

those and they got to be
perfect. They got to fall in

light. That's a freaking art
form. Yeah, bending pipe and

conduit in the electrical field
is truly an art

form. And if you have pride in
your job, there is even an art

form to be in. The guy that
works at the deli counter at

Publix, there was a young man. I
went in there and I said, Hey,

my parents are coming. First of
all, big smile on his face.

Young kid, kind of unexpected.
How you doing, sir? How can I

help you today? I mean, total
sincerity. Oh, parents are

coming in town. I was thinking
about getting maybe, like,

maybe, like, a full pound of
your boars head, black pepper.

Great choice. How, how many
sandwiches you think you're

gonna have to make? Like, he's
totally, he's got the sales

process down. And I was like,
Dude, I'm probably gonna, we're

probably gonna have about four
sandwiches, but we might do that

two times, all right, so eight
sandwiches and two slices of

turkey. You think per sandwich?
I'm like, Oh yeah, my dad

Dagwood. He wants to make some
dagwoods totally set me up

because let me know if you need
anything else. You know, I'm

here, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays
great. I mean, it's like, wow,

what a pleasurable experience.
Yeah, or when somebody's

checking you out at the counter
at Publix, and they're they are

efficient, they have a smile,
they're pleasant. They. Help you

bag everything. It's, you know,
because I've seen the opposite

ends of the spectrum. Oh,

totally. We have those. Sucks.
Yeah, because that's what you

expect, though. Because it's a

supermarket, they're taking your
money either way. So if you're

going to take my money, God, if
it's pleasurable,

yeah, the experience matters,
yeah. And when you got somebody

who is an entertaining aspect of
it. Look at the bartenders. You

ever see a flare tender? You had
to in your days on the road. If

I was a bartender, I would be a
flare tender. You know what a

flare tender is? Put some, you
know, some spins Tom, some Tom

Cruise stuff, Tom Cruise, like
cocktail, right? So we first saw

that when we moved to Vegas, and
that bartender made bank because

you're entertaining. Now,

even if you don't go that far
and you are just a great person

on it, you're on it. And if the
you have the art of like,

there's someone way down at the
bar, he's holding up $100 bill.

He's just trying to get your
attention. He's not, I've done

that. I'm not trying to be
douche. I'm just letting you

know, hey, I'm gonna hook you
up, bro, yeah, it just give me,

give me a nod and be like, one
second, or I'll be right with

you or something. It's the ones
that ignore you. And he's like,

is it my ever going to be
greeted? Here am I chopped

liver? It's acknowledgement.
Acknowledge. Huge, huge, big.

Yeah, you know, being a session
drummer. Well, that's the

thing that you talked about, um,
you know, in like, we kind of

did some driving scenes, and we
would ask questions, demand

element, which, back in the good
old days, it's the best car

ever. Know about you. You made,
you made so many different

little wisdom nuggets that I
remember at the time hearing

them come out of your mouth. I
would file them in the back of

my head. One of them was, look,
treat everybody in the studio,

at least in the studio setting,
you know, you're talking about

recording at the time, like,
like you would want to be

treated, or they would want to
be treated. You know, you they,

the people that are at the front
desk are working there, they're

getting their foot in the door.
And for somebody who's

influential coming in, who's
actually doing the thing they

want to do, for you, to be nice
to them was just a huge part of

their day, and it's your brand.
Your Brand made them feel good,

because you said, Look, every
single person in that building

wants to move up. Yeah, they
want to excel in their career.

And if they can remember me and
how I treated them, that's going

to help me, because eventually,
if they land in an engineer spot

or a second engineer and then to
become a producer, maybe they

become, you know, into the
alongside of a major artist, and

they remember me, I can be a
part of that gig. You had the

right attitude. I can't imagine.
I think a lot more people

because of you sharing that
information, probably apply

those principles to their lives,
which makes competition more

fierce. But for probably once
upon a time, you so you talked

about getting vibed out in the
studio, especially when you were

new.

Oh, and you're new, yeah, yeah.
Gotta be nice to everybody. I

mean, just doing a great job as
a as a hired gun musician, you

know, you get the information.
You talk to the producer or the

artist or the engineer. What are
we looking for? What's the vibe?

What's the energy you're
referencing? What are the what

are the artists? Who other
artists? Oh, it's like a stone

temple pilot thing. Okay, so I'm
gonna bring my, you know, Ludwig

Vista lights, a wide open bass
drum. But I'm gonna have a towel

in the car, some towels. I'm
gonna have a variety of pillows

in the car, a variety of snare
drums. I got a, Oh, it got a

bunch of sticks and mallets. And
every

drummer of your level when you
were coming up. Did they have

that wherewithal and that
awareness to even have those

things on hand, just in case?
Were you kind of, like, were you

ahead of the

curve? I think I most guys have
the stuff on hand. You know, you

gotta have a variety of snare
drums, or just have one really

amazing snare drum that can do a
lot of things, and you can get

there quickly. But what if you
break the bottom head on that

one snare drum? Like you at
least got to have two drums,

because time is money in the
studio. So what if you the snare

wires pop, or the bottom head
pops, and then you're eating up

time? But no, no one wants to
deal with that, man, it's time

is money a second bass drum
pedal, you know? Because what if

you break the spring, you know,
right?

What do you bring to a typical
like, demo session or, you know,

because when you're recording
things these days, what are you

bringing with you into a studio?

And does it vary for it varies
project

to project, because, so let's
say they're going to a studio.

There's a house kit. So you talk
to the person that owns the

studio, the engineer or the
producer, you say, like, hey,

what's the condition? Like, what
is the make and model of the

house? Kid, what is the
condition? Is it well

maintained? Is there hardware?
This is the Can I just the snare

drum? Is there a high hat
clutch? Is there is stuff

stripped out? Is the bass drum
pedal. Is it squeaky? Is there

metal rubbing on metal on the
simple stands? Are there Felts?

And they say, man, it's it's
pretty good, and the heads are

pretty fresh. And you go like,
Oh, great day. So then, really,

all I need to bring is my stick
bag, a bag of percussion to over

dub, some stuff, a couple. Snare
drums. Still probably going to

bring my bass drum pedal,
because that's so personal.

Yeah, what if the pedal really
is super squeaky, or it's, like,

super tight, oh, like, and you
can barely move it. That's

really going to slow down your
day. You're not going to have a

good time. You're not going to
sound like yourself. And then

it's, no matter what they say
about the hi hat stand and the

snare drum stand, it's always
good to have those things

because, you know, the way I
play pretty physically, you

know, a student model 1970s
snare drum stands probably not

gonna hold up, right? And then
you gotta have lug locks. You

gotta have tons of gaff tape,
because you can use the gaff

tape to modify the sound of your
drums. But you can also use the

gaff tape to first thing I do is
I gaff down the bass drum spurs,

so that doesn't move because I
have a gorilla foot, and then I

gaff down the bass drum pedal,
so that doesn't slide off,

because I have some sort of a
weird technique with my bass

drum where I kind of slide on
the pedal, and it just makes the

bass drum pedal do this soaks
out, which is not

fun. So the bottom of the bass
drum pedal you're taping down.

Yeah, even when I go to these
jam nights, you know, the

Nashville drummers jams, or Tom
Hurst loud jams, or whatever,

I'm the weird guy that runs up
after the other guy. You have

other guys getting off. I'm
patting him on the back. Great

job, man. Get the hell off,
because I gotta. I taped down

because I know that I'm only
going to play a song for three

and a half minutes. It's
probably going to be videotaped

for all time. I want to enjoy
myself. So this could be a deal

breaker, so I tape that sucker
down. Then I'll probably put a

couple of strips of duct tape on
the snare drum stand super quick

while the girl singers like how
you guys doing you having a good

time taping stuff. You know, I'm
taping it down so I can enjoy

myself.

So you have, you have your own
gaff tape that you bring with

you. Always, wow. Always got

my man bag, you know, with my
lug locks and my gaff tape and

my my pedals and you might need
in ear monitors. Or you might,

you know, it's just good to

have this stuff with you. Okay,
this is getting geek talk. We're

getting very professional. Just
professionalism. I'm not blaming

you. I'm this is fascinating to
me. I don't think I've ever we

have these conversations out of
all the time we've known each

other. This is where all the
business people are changing.

Business people are checking out
the podcast they're off. But

this is the thing. This is about
what you need to be prepared.

And a lot of people just aren't
that prepared,

systems and processes,
especially if you're gonna try

repetition travel for a living.
Man, yeah, I just bought my new

bat. My last backpack made it
eight years? Yeah, leather

backpack, really nice. Went
around the world. Yeah, I got a

new one for 2025 with all the
fresh zippers, and it's got that

new backpack smell, and all my
stuff goes in a specific

compartment, because you want to
be able to find things quickly,

and you want to know where
everything is, so you don't lose

things, because then you start
losing, you know, your iPhone

charger and your computer
charger, and, God forbid your

laptop said security. So you got
to have systems together when

you're mobile. Yeah, you know,

and know where all things are at
all times. How many symbols do

you think you have? Well, we

start thinking about drum sets.
I mean, just drum sets, man, I

got three drum sets in a locker
in Burbank, California. I have

three drum sets at drum paradise
in Nashville, along with about

25 snare drums and tons of
symbols, bags and vaults of

symbols. And then I have stuff
at Jason l Dean's locker.

There's a B rig that is ready to
go in the locker, in case we

have back to back gigs in
different parts of the country.

Then I have my a rig that lives
on Jason's, you know, semi,

yeah, and that's got tons of
backup symbols, several backup

snare drums. Then I have tons of
stuff at Crash studio, my

studio, yeah, in Nashville,
another 30 snare drums,

nine drum sets. So think of the
days when you just had the

Yamaha kit, the one

drum set that only did one thing
in the floor time was hung from

the it was a rack tom. It was,
it was, it was a rack floor

because it was the Dave weckel
Smokey black with the gold lugs.

Okay, I wonder who has that kit
now, man, because

you that's that's very nostalgic
for you. Totally. It's funny

because I did that with my pearl
exports. We had two of the

drums, I think I, I made my 16
by 16 floor tom, a hanging floor

tom with just one of the pearl
Yeah. Adapters. Drilled the

whole the whole nine yards.
Yeah. I

think about the history of the
drums you've had. I had that

those cherry red Yamaha stage
customs and then, but

you didn't have duplicate kits
back then, it was a matter of

affordability. Yeah, so your
first endorsement deal was with

sonor back in no one or two. So
you what was that like? You

know, did you get to pick. Pick
out, you know, hey, you got you,

hey kid you got you could pick
out four kids. Go

have fun. Beggars could not be
choosers. Back then, when I was

new on that roster, I was
playing with a group called rush

low, with Tim rush low from
little Texas. And, you know, we

worked really hard. We had two
soft hits on country radio and

can't be your friend.

Yep. And I got a anymore. I got
an S Class drum set. That's

funny, because that's the
flagship Mercedes. It's the,

yeah, it's the S Class drum set.
And that drum set ended up on

hick town. It ended up on the
video. It's in the in the middle

of middle of this mud pit
surrounded by monster trucks and

flames and smoke and hot chicks,
and I actually might be selling

the hick town drum set. Might be
really I was thinking about

letting it go into the universe.
I think it would be great if it

ended up in like a Hard Rock
Hotel or a Hard Rock Cafe. Yeah,

that'd be nice. But I do know a
friend of mine that is, they

call him the drum pusher, and he
sells celebrity drummer drum

sets. And is he the guy who did
celebrity sidemen? Now,

if you again, if you're
listening to this podcast, very

musical, a lot of insight, not
inside baseball stuff, but I

hope still good information that
you could take and apply to your

business, because a lot of what
you know Rich is, of course,

technique. A lot of people see
you as a country rock drummer,

but it's amazing, because you do
have a really varied approach to

different styles and all the
things that you know, you know,

you have one of the most
buttery, smooth, freaking double

stroke roles I've ever seen.
And, you know, I've seen you

play jazz, I've seen you play
big band. I've seen you do snare

solos. I mean, you are
classically, you're a master

percussionist at what you do,
but you're also and you and I

have talked about this over the
years, is the fact that you have

such business acumen in a
multitude of areas, in probably

one of the most difficult
businesses on the planet, you

know, which is very applicable
to, I think all businesses.

I mean which one is gross and
which one is

net. Give me a good episode. So,
but yeah, you

probably don't use that one a
lot on your podcast, forgetting.

Oh, yeah. People love it. Yeah,
it's apropos. Well, thanks, Jim.

I feel like you know what,
you've had me on your show and

your various iterations of your
shows over the years well, and

there's only so many things you
can ask me, but you have found

all these different ways to ask
it,

and you know, it's still
fascinating to me, because it's

still, you know, as much of a
lifestyle, it probably wouldn't

have been a match for me. It's
still fascinating. It's still

interesting. Because even when I
sold cars, people were

fascinated. People hated car
sales, people, but I believe I

was an exception to the rule,
because I did it. Integris Lee,

I did it very honestly, and I
made friends with my customers

and made sure that they could
trust me, but they were always

intrigued about the back room
workings of a car dealership.

Yeah, well,

when he when you say, Well, let
me go talk to my boss, right.

Where are you going and what are
you saying? But, you know, I

kind of got to the point where
I'm like, you know, if this is

the kind of if this kind of, if
this, if we can get this, and I

can get my brought my boss to
agree on it, is this something

you want to move on? You know?
If he says, Okay, are you ready

to move on this? I can't take
this to him, and with a weak

agreement, you know, if we're
going to be talking about, let's

doing the let's do the deal.
Let's figure out a price point,

and let's see. I don't know what
he's going to be agreeable to.

Let's Make a Deal seriously.
Yeah. And that's the way I would

kind of put it to them and say,
Is this so if he's a we come

back and he's good to go. Are
you good to go now you're ready

to put this thing in your
driveway this afternoon? Did

that work? A lot. Yeah, nice.
Because typically, you know, at

that point I would say it in
such a way that it was I was

serious, because, like, if I can
get them to agree? I don't know.

I don't know where we were in
the month of terms of how

desperate we were to move metal
and how many cars were out and

what kind of grosses were on
them. I mean, there was all

nebulous. It was all a lot of
variables in that business,

yeah, you know.

But ultimately, it's, it's about
the customer, what they was,

your case, your artist, and
whoever you're working for,

right?

Totally, we you've heard it five
bajillion times. We are here to

serve the song, serve the
artist. So

is the artist a customer. Is the
song, the customer or the

listener, the customer, right?
They're all, that's all a yes,

yeah, that's that was a problem
with radio. The artist can't

exist without the listener, the
audience, the fans,

and there would be no audience
without the song, right, right?

Yeah. So it's this symbiotic
relationship.

It's such a balance, definitely.
Complicated balance, even in

radio coming up in that
business, I always said it was

the most complicated business to
sudden, you know, in general,

because you've got two end users
to appease in that business.

You've got your listener, and
then you got your advertiser,

you know, and the you had to
create an audience of listeners

that would appeal to a certain
kind of advertiser. And a lot of

the sales people will say, well,
our audience, the advertisers,

more important than the
listener, except what pays for

everything. I mean, we would
say, well, as program people,

programming department people,
without the listener, you've got

nothing to say, no business
which comes first chicken or the

egg and so, and then you work
for a publicly traded company,

you throw in a shareholder, oh,
boy, you got three. It's a

delicate balance, and that's why
you've seen a lot of these radio

companies are just faltering
these days. Yeah, they didn't

keep up with technology.

You know? We should do is
scratch our own back, you know?

We do have this thing called the
rich Redmond show, and we have

220 episodes. Yes, pretty
incredible. It is. It's amazing

that we just keep showing up.

It's akin to Michael Knox, Jason
Aldean, sticking it out for six,

seven years. Yeah, and it's
funny, you know, weird kind of

doing the same thing in
podcasting world. Yeah. I tell

all my clients, well, you know,
when can I monitor can I

monetize that? Sometimes that
question comes up and I say, you

can monetize right off the out
of the gate, if you want. Yeah.

Well, how do I do that? Hang a
shingle. I put put an ad rate

card together. How much for a 30
or 15, a 60? How much is a show

sponsorship? How much is a
studio sponsorship? You know?

How do we put numbers to all
that? The numbers aren't going

to be huge, but they could
certainly offset your production

costs. You could probably find
somebody who's willing to take a

gamble on the show a year from
now being something and they

get, they get in on the ground
floor of an opportunity, and pay

a very nice entry fee to get
their business plastered all

over this thing, and then they
have first right of refusal

when, hey, now we got numbers,
let's renegotiate. Well, now we

got we can, you know, ask for a
lot more. You're more than

welcome to accommodate this
price. This is our agreement for

a year. If not, we'll find
somebody who will, you know, and

that's a lot of people kind of
go into podcasting. Well, one

can I monetize? I always say
right off the bat, but don't get

your hopes up. Monetize it
through the joy. Have you got to

find the fun in doing this? You
know, much like you guys did

from 90s, you did it. You wanted
to do it for work and make a

living. But, man, so does
million other people. But

podcasting, much like authoring
books nowadays, is basically a

business card for some other

business? Sure, right? There's
so many, there's so many

elements to a podcast. I mean,
it's talking about your own

business. It's talking about
other people's business. Who do

you want to meet? Do you want to
meet a CEO and invite them on

your podcast? You never know,
ask. You got a show, you got a

platform. It's got, you know,
you getting a couple 100

downloads and episodes, nothing
to balk at. You got somebody

who's enjoying it no and over

the years, we want to publicly
thank you. Know Angie McCarthy's

her birthday today, from rock.
Angie and Kelly were a sponsor,

a long time sponsor. It was
very, very fun. And then, of

course, my friend Bruce Klein,
who was the lead singer of said,

best top 40 band in Dallas,
random access. We were like long

time buddies, and he got into
real estate, and he did some

advertising with us. And I
always enjoyed that because, you

know, you put so much time and
energy into the show, and it was

a great way for me to get you
paid, you know. So if there's

any listeners out there that
want to, you know, advertise on

a hip, fresh, cool music,
motivation, success,

entrepreneurial angle podcast,
you know, talk to us. I think, I

think our podcast would be great
for, you know, coffee companies,

fashion brands, musical
accessory brands, local, local

music stores, spots in hips,
hipster spots in Nashville with

a, you know, great, a great
taqueria. Because, you know,

basically every musician in the
world never met a musician that

didn't like tacos, right?

Or coffee. Well, I agree with
you, the coffees, the fashions,

things of that nature. I've
often toyed around the notion of

taking all the podcasts we
produce, and we've, John and I

have talked about this, putting
just a rate card together. How

many, you know, pick the podcast
you want to be on. Here's how

much it is for them. Here's, you
know, like a network of

podcasts. Let's take the same
spot, put it across all the

different podcasts and see which
one hits, if this one produces

more than put more of an
emphasis and a spend on that

podcast. Because I produce, you
know, probably 1516 podcasts at

this point,

and we would do a live reads for
our clients, you think, or, I

mean, because we did produced
ads,

yeah, we did produced ads. I
mean, I think the live reads,

the integration into an episode
you would have to make a client

understand, there's a premium
for that, because once it's

baked in, like that, it's um.
Um, it's there forever. You know

what I mean? As opposed to
running a 3060, or a 15 second

ad that can be dynamically
placed, you can pull them in and

plug, you know, unplug them and
stuff like that, which is

something we should probably
think about doing. But, you

know, for the try that podcast,
they've got a about three

sponsors at this point. Nice,
they're doing, you know, video

they got to that run during the
show, when it runs pre, pre

roll. So, yeah, it's, it's, it
can be done. And that's the way

the general market is moving.
You know, because some of these

podcasts have audiences that
dwarf, or that complete love, is

it dwarf? Is it them dwarfing?
So like some like the Joe Rogan

show has got an audience that
dwarfs most radio I thought it

was a little person. Joe Rogan,
no, I thought dwarf was little

person. But you know, how
something dwarfs another thing,

you know? Why are we totally
Yeah. So basically, he's got an

audience that's just probably 10
times larger than most radio

networks, like the entirety of
the CBS infinity Radio Network

Joe Rogan probably has from his
one show, and it's

pretty incredible. How did he
become so popular?

Because he had momentum going
into it. He took advantage. He

got into it because he loved
being on Opie and Anthony show,

the radio show back in the day,
and he says, Well, I want to do

that, but I'm not going to try
and fight a gatekeeper or pay to

be on another radio show or try
to, you know, audition my way on

XM. There's this thing called
podcasting that was coming out

no 607 because they called it
podcasting, because you could

actually have a broadcast of a
show on an iPod. So they

combined the two words and went
from broadcast to podcast. So

didn't know if you knew that.

Oh, yeah. And I remember Steve
Jobs announcing that we had this

thing called a podcast. Yeah, so
Marin has been at it, I think,

years, so that Rogan's been at
it for probably nearly 20 at

this point. Oh, so he was before
marriage. Yeah, he, I think

Rogan started, I would say, oh,
eight or nine. Whoo, so. And,

you know, he didn't, it wasn't
like it is now, you know, he had

to have, you know, the tip of
the iceberg, of what you see is

the rest of the iceberg
underneath the sea as well. All

the work he put into it, kept
doing, kept going. He kept

going. And a lot of what we're
doing today, I think, with you

and I doing your show, and what
I'm doing with my show this

particular show, yeah, it's not,
it's, it's a local business

show, yeah, I'm not going to be
freaking hitting it out of the

park with a ton of listens. The
funny thing is, I have a podcast

that's 11 episodes deep, and we
need to start it up again. It's

called capes and hammers. I
don't know if I told you about

this. Oh, it's about it's about
Marvel, the Marvel stuff, all

the movies and everything like
that. There's a lot of Marvel

fans. We haven't produced an
episode on that friggin podcast

in probably three years. It
still gets downloads. Who's the

other people? It was CJ Whelan
and gray. Arnold. Gray was like

the the Encyclopedia of comic
book knowledge, which, oddly

enough, I've got somebody like
that, and Ben, a new associate

that works with me. Oh, Ben's a
Marvel guy. Yeah, he's, he's a

comic, comic book guy. And CJ
was one of the guys at the

previous organization who was a
great technician, great

electrician. Now he's actually,
if you need an electrician, I'll

give him a plug. CJ Whelan,
great guy. He's here locally in

Spring Hill, and he does a great
job. Comes to your house. He's

great in front of your kids, in
front of your family, very good

customer facing person, and he's
got a family to feed, and great.

He just does a great job. So he
would also be on the podcast,

because he was intrigued like I
was, and I said, you know, we

would always have these amazing
conversations before they would

go off and work for the day
about different ideas of the,

you know, the Marvel Cinematic
Universe. You know, things like,

you know, why did Doctor
Strange, what was the one thing

he had control over when fan, he
met Thanos on Titan, you know,

and 10 and he they had the big
fight and everything like that.

And Doctor Strange with all the
14 what happened? Buddy, falling

asleep.

What I mean? I mean, man, I came
up loving Spider Man. But then,

you know that universe just
expanded and expanded. I'm sure

there's people out there that
just Yeah,

about that those universes, I
mean, now they get into the

multiverse concept. And, you
know, you see the Spider Man

where they all, three of them
came together. I

didn't miss that one. Oh, it's a
good one. Yeah, really good one.

Yeah, it

was one of the best ones since.
But one of the the key movies

that stand out since end game
were definitely that one. I

think Shang chi was a great
movie. Like anything. I'll go

back and watch again. I think
it's a good one, nice. And I've

probably seen Shang chi of like,

times. I never even had Shang
chi on the to do list. Do you

think it's great? It's good,
wow.

It's a kung fu movie, gotcha. If
you like those, yeah, modern

take on it with some, you know,
mystical magic and all that fun

stuff. Yeah? But it's. You're an
author as well. We wanted to

make sure that we have the book
behind us. You see on my shot

that I've got the Making it in
country music book right there?

Yeah, we had our friend Vince
Santoro on last night, who

played a lot of music with Dave
Pomeroy and Dave Pomeroy, world

class bass player. He's also the
president of our local 257,

American Federation musicians
chapter here in Nashville, he

wrote the forward, and I had
some help with this book with my

friend Jennifer delazana. She's
a professional author, and took

about a year of our lives to
write this thing. And got a

great test, a lot of
testimonials from great people

in the industry. And think it's
got five stars on Amazon, and

hey, it exists for all time. And
if people want some insights on

how to shave off time on
navigating the thing that is

Nashville

might help you out. You know,
yeah, maybe we need to advertise

your book on your show. Hey, how
much to advertise your book on

your show

just depends on what I need for
you to produce the pug, to

produce the ad. Okay, sounds
like a trip to Don Arturo's. And

you do, and you do have a nice,
a nice, brand spanking new ad

for my drum tensive, which is
really nice. But there's

another thing that you kind of
you're a great marketer, and

sigh like you know your hustle
is still spot on, because you've

created a service that where
people could fly in and spend a

day with you, and you'll break
down all that. You've done it

for me as I get ready to gear up
and play for the Huey Lewis man

that's coming up, if you guys
haven't heard about that, that

those tickets are still
available by the time this comes

out, it should be about a week
away. It's May 28 at the city

wide.

I'll be there, Jim. And also,
the best thing on the city, I've

been there so much recently,
they've got flatbreads, and

they've got, like, a spicy
chicken flatbread. So I will be

front row with my flatbread and
a glass of red

Nice. Yeah. Well, sit at the
table with the wife and my

brother and all that fun stuff.
Totally, yeah, whoever else

comes. And I think we have,
like, a multitude of the

drummers that we've been, Anna
coming and, oh, his Dan's

girlfriend, I don't know. I
don't know yet. She may have to

work that week. She's an
esthetician in Washington, so

Saturdays are important.

Oh, you mean, like facials and
waxing and all that kind of

stuff. Good to know. So he'll be

there because he's playing. He
and I are performing that

weekend in Georgia with first
time he and I are playing into

probably about 1314, that'd be
awesome. I know that'd be really

great. I'd love it if you moved
here, man, yeah. I mean, that

would be so much that would just
like just to be in a band with

him. We've never really been in
a band, you know,

that'd be awesome being a band
with my brother. But, you know,

neither one of my brothers play
musical instrument. That would

be difficult. I that would be
difficult, but, yeah, so, you

know, if there's any musicians
listening, or if there's any

folks with with musician kids,
yeah, you fly into Nashville, we

do three hours of educational
training, and then I take you to

a nice lunch, which is like
sushi or steak. It's definitely

not McDonald's. Then we do
another three hours in the

afternoon and and I just have a
deep we answer other questions.

Then I have a deep curriculum
which kind of prepares you with

the skill sets that you're going
to need to master to come to a

city like a Nashville, a New
York, or a Los Angeles, because

it's really this, you know, a
big city, Music City there, the

same principles are going to a
ply, yeah, you know, but most

people are gearing up to come to
Nashville, because this is one

of the last true places for the
music industry, where people are

all recording in the same room
at the same time, and it's still

affordable enough where you can
get a house and have some dirt

under your feet, not really
worry about your kids going to

school and, You know, create a
life for yourself while you're

going after music,

I would say, for anybody that is
even a hobbyist, like somebody

in my shoes, by nature, being
around you, being your one of,

you know, you're one of my best
friends looking at the way and

style that you play you I'm a
chameleon like that. I absorb it

and I apply it, you know, I
think I am not the drummer I was

when I was in my 20s. I think
I'm a lot better. I think I'm

more tasteful, and I've got a
lot more flamboyant energy,

energy, because a lot of that is
your packaging that you display

on a nightly basis when you're
out doing your thing. Yeah, for

anybody who's listening, who
knows a drummer, or is a

drummer. This is great. Just
even if you're a hobbyist,

you're playing in Des Moines and
cover bands, you want to be the

best guy in that area. This is a
good program to take rich up on,

because he'll break down all you
know. He'll, he'll celebrate

your strengths and build upon
your strengths. But also, hey,

this is a little bit weak.
Let's, let's try this. I mean, I

think for me, you identified, we
were working on shuffles, and

you suggested a kind of
different variation of a

shuffle. I'm like, Okay, now I
got, yeah, something here. You

know,

I just showed a student of mine
the other day, Curtis, and he

is, he's had taken two drum 10s.
So it was the second time he.

Flew into Nashville, the study
with me, and we were talking

about reeling in the years,
because I was talking about all

the different types of shuffles.
So, you know, shuffles are like,

you don't hear him too many, too
much on the radio, yeah. So you

don't hear him much. And so we
were talking about reeling in

the years, which is, you know,
kind of a yacht Rock Shuffle.

And he was playing the kick drum
pattern. It was feeling pretty

good, but I said, put that
little middle note in there

after beat one and after beat
three, and it's kind of like the

glue. It's like the force, it
binds it all together. And he

started working on that, and it
just took it up a game. So this

attention to detail, like I
said, you know, we'll find out

what you need to work on.
Definitely going to get you into

reading music. You're I'm going
to expose you to some other

styles of music. So if you're
just a rock and roll drummer,

we're gonna talk about jazz a
little bit. We're gonna talk

about rhythms from other
countries that you can

incorporate into your playing.
It'll make you a richer, more

versatile, more marketable,
commercial drummer, because,

hey, playing drums for fun is
great, but what don't you want

to be the best in your town at
it? Don't you want to maybe make

a little money at it, so I can
help you do that. Yeah,

even for those like as a
voiceover, person myself doing

it, as long as I have finding I
still could probably use some

coaching. The tough thing is, is
finding the coach that can you

know that I'm not better than
Yeah, I mean, and I would

imagine that's kind of like for
you who's speaking into your

life as a coach that you draw,
because you still have to, you

know, you're great at your
craft, yeah, but you still want

to work on it and develop it. Is
there anything that's happening

now that,

Oh, nice. Well, there's some of
my heroes that I have been

following my entire life, and it
just works out that the age

difference between us is always
going to be the same, because

the math works out like that. So
I've had a couple of peoples in

my life that I kind of use as
career models. And these guys

are now in their 50s, 60s and
70s, and so I'm looking at them

going, how have they bobbed and
weaved and changed and stayed

relevant and, you know, evolved
in the industry? So I'll kind of

watch their career and like and
I think that some of these guys

might be looking at me too,
because I'm coming from another

generation just a couple years
back and going, well, how does

he see the world? And, oh, man,
this kid started speaking, so

maybe I need to start speaking.
Or, Hey, this guy, you know,

some of these guys are making
themselves uncomfortable, and

they're putting themselves in
situations that they're not

necessarily doing all the time
that really helps their

musicianship. So I have my
people that I keep an eye on.

What are they doing? What can I
keep stealing from them? Right?

It's obvious that things are
going well for them, because he

just did 22 years with this
recording artist, and this guy

just got a residency in Vegas,
and this guy is doing it. So I

just, you know, and social media
is a great way to kind of keep

an eye on everybody all at the
same time. Yeah, just, I think

one of the perks of social
media, as long as you don't use

it as you get into the death by
comparison thing, because that

can really make you sour. And
you just, you just assume that

everybody's got a better life
than you. Yeah, is doing better?

They

can definitely put a good veneer
out there. Yeah, that's exactly

what a lot of social media is.
It's the highlight. So here's

the thing, we're an hour and 30
May, 38 minutes. Oh, my God,

we've been able to, even after
knowing each other so well,

still have, hopefully a very
compelling, informative, value

packed conversation. I think it

is, you're a good

host, you're a good you're a
good interviewer,

because I still have a genuine
curiosity. You know, it's we

probably don't talk about a lot
about this stuff, you know.

Well,

you and I have just kind of dove
head first into the trenches.

And, you know, originally
starting my podcast was a way

for me to continually practice
thinking on my feet and

sharpening my interview skills
in a very kind of almost

prepared inside the actor
studio, buttoned up way because

I had a lot of interest in
potentially being like a Mario

Lopez, yeah. And in all honesty,
I don't think that's gonna

happen. So I just, we're just
another iteration. Yeah, you and

I are just kind of like, I just,
we just dove into the deep end

of the pool, and we get in there
with the our guest. And one

thing that the guest always says
every time, so much so that

we're putting it on on one of
our shirts. Yeah? Well, that was

fun.

It was. It's always fun. Yeah,
you know, that's the thing. Is,

I'm a practitioner of what I
tell my own clients is that even

though I'm not getting directly
paid for doing our show, doing

the ales and tails podcast, it's
fun. Ales and tails get free

beer, free beer. We get exposed
to different beers. Mike is such

a it's another podcast I
produce, the yells and tails

podcast, the yells and tails
podcast. He is so good at

describing beer, his
articulation of the the notes

and the smells and the tastes
and. Flavors. It's really a fun

episode, a fun series of
episodes to listen to, because

we get into the beer, then we'll
let it kind of linger, and you

kind of want to let it marinate,
and that's when we get into the

tales portion, whatever may come
up storytelling.

And it could be anything that's
on their mind or from their

past. Oh yeah, we get blue. I'm
part of the show, so we're gonna

get blue. I think

it'd be nice to have some
palette cleansers on that show,

like we do in between season,
crackers and some some,

well, we'll clean, we'll cleanse
our palettes in between every

episode. So we shoot three
episodes at a time, because we

can't do any more. Four episodes
will be snotcher. And it's like

we always say, Okay, it's the
third episode. Get

ready. Oh, my God. Does Mike
drive his Porsche, Porsche over

here? Nice. He is Ridgeline.
He's got a Honda Ridgeline. You

know, we're not that bad. You
know, any cops that are

listening so, well, man, I'm
gonna wrap it up and they every

they can find all the things at
rich, redmond.com correct,

R, E, D, M, o, n, d, yeah. I'd
love for you to visit my

overpriced website. No, I, I
love the guys. Everybody's

looking for a quality website.
They always do me a solid. But

there's a great company called
mule town digital. Yeah, right,

south of us, tons and tons. Need
to have those guys on my show.

It'll be great. Adam Silverman
is a was the drummer with Lauren

Elena, and we toured together
1213, years ago, and that's when

I met him. And even at that
time, he had this side hustle of

teaching himself web design, and
now he's got a huge company with

tons of employees. Yeah, so it's
amazing. He's

doing a website building
business. Check those guys out.

Yeah, maybe they need to
advertise mule town. Am I

talking like I'm from Wisconsin?
Yeah. Advertised like from

Chicago, yeah. So yes, go to
Rich redmond.com

and of course, if you want to be
on the show, there's a

link@mmtbp.com

the mostly Middle Tennessee
business podcast, that is a.com

address as well, but a lot more
to type in. That's why I

truncated it down to mm tbp.com
all. The things are there. If

you want to be on the show, let
me know. And please be from this

area, or have some sort of
influence in this area, that

would be great. And, yeah, all
the things are there rich as

always. We do this every now and
then. Great. We're still have

stuff to talk about, so I'm
happy about that.

Fantastic. Well, I appreciate
you having me. I was,

yeah, I was on the can this
morning, and I got the text, do

you want to be a guest on my
show today? And I was like,

Absolutely, okay, cool.
Sometimes they work out that

way. It was great, buddy. Thank
you so much. I don't think I

sent the text from the can, but
maybe, maybe I did, I don't

know. Well, there you go. Check
us out. Thanks again for being

on we're gonna wrap it up. Talk
to you later. Thanks, pal. You.